Andrej Fursow: Was nach dem Kapitalismus kommt – und warum es gefährlicher werden könnte

Summary

In this interview, Russian historian Andrej Fursow argues that the world is moving from capitalism into a more dangerous post-capitalist order. He dates the end of the post-war settlement to the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1989–91, and says the 2008–09 financial crisis showed that capitalism had exhausted its possibilities. In his view, the pandemic and the war in Ukraine mark the start of a new historical era.

Fursow sees financialization as weakening industry and economic growth while concentrating wealth. He argues that digital platforms have changed the nature of power: rather than merely owning capital or producing goods, powerful actors can control information, markets, communication, and people’s behavior. He describes this as post-capitalist and uses “bio-eco-digital fascism” as a metaphor for technologically enabled control.

He predicts that the Western European middle class could be almost entirely destroyed within 10 to 15 years, leaving a society divided between a small wealthy elite and a much larger poor population. He links the earlier collapse of middle classes in Latin America and the former Eastern Bloc to a broader trend. He also argues that mass education is being weakened because a post-industrial economy needs fewer broadly educated workers. Artificial intelligence and reliance on smartphones, he warns, may further erode independent thought and memory.

Fursow says democracy is being hollowed out as decision-making shifts away from public institutions and toward informal networks linking state officials, business, and intelligence agencies. He rejects the idea of a single world government but claims that competing elite groups seek greater control over information and social behavior. He also portrays fear—especially fear of war and disease—as a means of political control. His comments about Covid, a possible future pandemic, and elite intentions are presented as his beliefs, not independently established facts.

On geopolitics, Fursow expects a prolonged period of conflict. He compares the present to the Thirty Years’ War and suggests that regional wars could merge into a wider global struggle. He argues that declining US hegemony and weaker states will make conflict more frequent. He claims some US and Western European elites may seek to set Russia and Europe against each other, and says Europe’s leaders are increasingly “transatlantic” rather than nationally oriented. Russia, China, and the United States all face serious difficulties; asked who will prevail, he answers: “the last one to fall.”

Fursow considers a renewed German-Russian partnership unlikely in the foreseeable future, arguing that Germany lacks full sovereignty. He urges Germans to write their own history rather than relying heavily on English-language interpretations, and to pursue genuine sovereignty. The interview closes with his warning that the emerging order could become dictatorial, while emphasizing that public resistance can still limit its reach.

Presenters and Contributors

• Patrik Baab — interviewer and presenter
• Andrej Fursow — historian and interviewee