The English VS British Identity Crisis Is Burying the Real Problem

Summary

Host Katharine Birbalsingh argues that the media debate over whether people are “English” or “British” distracts from a more urgent question: whether children of every background feel they belong to the country and share a civic identity.

Englishness and Britishness

The episode begins with a disagreement between Konstantin Kisin and Fraser Nelson. Kisin describes Englishness chiefly in ancestral terms and says he and his children are British rather than English. Nelson takes a cultural and civic view: someone born and raised in England, such as Rishi Sunak, can be English regardless of ancestry. Birbalsingh says both men recognize ancestral identity but differ over whether to call the shared civic identity “English” or “British.”

She reviews the controversy that followed. Kisin was accused of racism, while Suella Braverman has also described herself as British of Asian origin, not English. Shabana Mahmood, by contrast, identifies as English as well as British, based on growing up in Birmingham. Birbalsingh says these positions are being interpreted as more alike than they are, and notes that many ethnic-minority people in earlier decades would have associated “English” with being white.

Identity and belonging in schools

Birbalsingh’s main criticism is directed at identity-focused approaches in schools and progressive commentary. She argues that lessons and materials often present white identity through privilege and racial disadvantage, while encouraging children from minority backgrounds to celebrate their ancestral heritage.

In her view, this creates a double standard: white children may feel ashamed of Britain, while minority children may be encouraged to identify primarily with a country of family origin. She also argues that teaching children to interpret belonging chiefly through race and ancestry can provoke resentment and strengthen ethnic nationalism on the right.

She illustrates this concern with examples of classroom activities about white privilege and a school cultural day in which, she says, a white pupil was sent home for wearing clothing representing British heritage. Birbalsingh cites survey findings that pride in British history among under-25s fell from a net 54% in 2011 to -4% in 2024, and that the share of Generation Z proud to be British declined from 80% to 40% over roughly two decades. She presents these figures as evidence that the broader issue is declining attachment to the country, not simply the choice between “English” and “British.”

Proposed remedy

Birbalsingh advocates a shared British civic identity that can unite people across ethnic and religious backgrounds. She says schools and families should help children feel they belong in Britain, rather than teaching them that the country is inherently shameful or that they belong elsewhere.

Listener Q&A

In the closing listener Q&A, Birbalsingh advises a parent whose toddler cries at daycare to persist and not feel guilty. On teacher workload and retention, she says disruptive behaviour is a major cause of stress and argues that stronger behaviour expectations would reduce workload and help retain teachers.

For aspiring teachers, she recommends books by Daisy Christodoulou, E. D. Hirsch, Daniel Willingham and Tom Bennett, covering education, knowledge and classroom behaviour.

Presenters and contributors

• Katharine Birbalsingh — presenter
• Konstantin Kisin and Fraser Nelson — speakers in the podcast excerpt
• Douglas Alexander, Shabana Mahmood, Suella Braverman, James O’Brien and Trevor Phillips — speakers in broadcast excerpts
• Robin DiAngelo — quoted in an excerpt about white identity
• Montgomery Toms and Charlie (surname unclear) — speakers in political discussion excerpts
• Unnamed teachers, pupils and interviewees also appear in the illustrative clips.