Why Uncle Donald Doesn't Want to Shake Off Natalie | The Daily Beast Podcast

Summary

Host Joanna Coles interviews Mary Trump, Donald Trump’s niece and a clinical psychologist, about what Mary sees as the psychological roots of her uncle’s behavior and its political consequences. Mary argues that Trump’s family taught him to treat kindness as weakness and cruelty as strength, and warns that this attitude has made public life less empathetic.

Discussing Trump’s remarks about Iran and the possibility of Los Angeles and San Diego being attacked, Mary calls them alarming and violent. She says Trump often floats ideas to test how people respond, and connects his rhetoric to his fear that Republicans could lose the midterms and that he might face investigations or impeachment. She doubts the 25th Amendment would be invoked, given what she describes as the cabinet’s loyalty to him.

Mary interprets Trump’s claim that he knows more than anyone about everything as an attempt to protect himself from feelings of inadequacy. In her view, the increasingly sweeping boast reflects growing insecurity. She says Trump’s appearances with prominent technology executives offer him reflected status and reinforce his sense of power, while the executives are chiefly pursuing their own interests.

The conversation traces Trump’s fear of being seen as a loser to the family dynamic Mary witnessed growing up. She says her grandfather, Fred Trump, rejected her father, Fred Trump Jr., for being gentle and having interests outside the family business. Donald, she argues, saw how his father treated Fred Jr. and learned to avoid admitting mistakes or showing vulnerability. Mary also describes Donald as having treated his father harshly during his later cognitive decline.

Mary characterizes Trump’s relationship with aide Natalie Harp as inappropriate and says Harp appears to fill his need for attention. She describes Harp as having “the qualities of a stalker,” while noting that Trump seems to welcome her closeness. Mary also criticizes Laura Loomer, portraying her as an opportunist who gains access by flattering Trump.

Other topics include Trump’s comments about taking aspirin and his repeated discussion of cognitive tests. Mary says such remarks may signal his own concern about his health, though she stresses that the White House is not forthcoming. She also interprets Trump’s anger over unflattering photos of his Doral golf club and his exclusion of certain news outlets from the press pool as signs of his difficulty accepting facts that contradict his preferred image.

Mary recounts the end of Trump’s $100 million lawsuit against her. She says she never possessed the tax records at issue, and that the case concluded after four years with a brief handwritten note from her that included neither an apology nor a retraction. The interview closes with her reflecting on her estrangement from the Trump family.

Presenters and Contributors

• Joanna Coles — Host
• Mary Trump — Guest
• Production team: Ryan Murray, John Romero, Rachel Passer, Heather Pesaro, and Neil Rosenhaus