#7 Anneke Lucas with Yvonne van Riemsdijk

Summary of the podcast episode (main arguments and reports)

Introduction and personal context (Anneke Lucas)

• Anneke Lucas says she’s happy to be recording despite repeated setbacks: her podcast recordings with a professional team couldn’t be published twice.
• She thanks listeners for donations, saying they make a real difference.

Yvonne van Riemsdijk’s life story: organized abuse and coercive “programming”

• Yvonne describes being part of a satanic/organized ritual abuse network from age 6 to 13 in Amsterdam.
• She says the abuse was facilitated by neighbors and two families close to her parents, with her parents away for long periods while neighbors took her at night.
• She reports extreme violence including:
  • torture
  • electrocution
  • hanging/chains
  • repeated sexual assaults (often group assaults)
  • ceremonies at other locations
• She explains the network selected children for specific traits. In her case, she was considered valuable because of:
  • her very light/blonde appearance (especially for an “international” ideology)
  • perceived “gifts” (e.g., ability to read people)

“Split” dissociation and enforced silence

• Yvonne describes being psychologically “split” so she could function outwardly in daytime life.
• She claims the network used:
  • threats
  • conditioning
  • repeated audio messages (tape recorders)
  • bright light and other sensory control
• She says these methods enforced compliance and amnesia.
• She emphasizes that children are made to endure and also witness horrors, which she says strengthens the ability to “shut up” and suppress memory.

Escalation from animals to children

• She recounts escalation by forcing children to kill animals (e.g., rabbits), sometimes with peers and school staff present (she says a principal/teacher/janitor were involved at least rarely).
• She describes a manufactured “choice” dynamic designed to terrorize, shame, and lock children into participation.

Transformation into perpetrators and the “tipping point”

• A major theme is how abuse “programs” victims into becoming perpetrators over time.
• She argues that survival motives and coercion can eventually create moments where the victim’s body reacts with pleasure/relief—which she calls terrifying and psychologically confusing.
• She stresses that the “deep certainty of being bad” often persists into adulthood until healing and processing occur.

How she says she escaped: danger to the network, then near-death “assassination attempt”

• Yvonne claims she began investigating and noticing hidden structures, including:
  • storage items/equipment
  • blankets
  • a shoe repair/cobbler business used as a cover
• After she confronted signs that something was wrong (including noticing “signals” in repairs like clogs and the absence of ticketing), she says a man recognized she’d figured it out.
• She states she was then targeted for removal. Her account includes claims that the network:
  • poisoned/drugged her, leading to kidney failure
  • concealed evidence in her home (e.g., disassembled lighting so she wouldn’t notice urine changes)
  • used a cover story involving a doctor she says was involved
• She describes:
  • coma
  • seizures
  • hospital intervention
  • survival “against odds” (“miracle of God”)
  • doctors later confirming it was extremely unlikely she would recover
• She says her coma may have wiped out programming, supported by later testing for responsiveness to signals/codes.

Healing process: trauma work, self-love, and rebuilding the self

• Yvonne says healing began when she was about 33, after years of fragmented memories/flashbacks and severe depression, including suicidal periods.
• She credits a key therapist (a clinical psychologist/psychotherapist), while emphasizing that healing requires two tracks:
  1. therapy and trauma-informed support
  2. ongoing self-directed work (reading, nature, exercise, spirituality, and especially learning self-love)
• She gives an example: recovering a long-missing memory of a childhood “witching ritual” that led to self-hatred, which later helped her shift from hatred of her body to neutrality.
• She repeatedly frames recovery as confronting both victimhood and forced perpetration, and rebuilding connection with the body and identity.

Social disbelief, isolation, and the need for trained support

• She emphasizes survivors face isolation because society often doesn’t believe them and because the abuse system isolates victims (including training them to become perpetrators).
• She argues specialized expertise is scarce—including in mental health services like GGZ in the Netherlands.
• She says survivors often need practitioners who can understand without minimizing.

Media coverage, politics, and “disinformation” concerns

• Yvonne links current attention to investigative journalism, mentioning a VPRO Argos broadcast that went worldwide, and then other mainstream broadcasts.
• She says awareness is growing, but disinformation also spreads—especially when exaggerated or implausible claims dominate.
• She argues disinformation can be strategically helpful to perpetrators because it diverts credibility from survivors’ accounts.

Nuance about institutions (police/justice)

• She pushes back against blanket claims that “the entire justice system/police are involved.”
• Instead, she says that individuals at some levels may be involved, while many professionals are trying to do good work.
• She presents this nuance as important to avoid alienating potential allies and to keep the issue factual.

Engaging survivors and defining “heroes”

• Anneke Lucas and Yvonne discuss why they speak out and support other survivors.
• Yvonne argues that real “heroes” are:
  • survivors
  • and those who risk speaking truth
• She contrasts this with outsiders who present themselves as heroes without addressing their own healing or trauma.

Closing reflections

• They conclude by emphasizing continued work in journalism and better trauma-informed treatment.
• Yvonne says more openness is coming and compares progress to how the Holocaust faced disbelief earlier—while noting that the analogy is complex.

Presenters / contributors

• Anneke Lucas (podcast host/presenter)
• Yvonne van Riemsdijk (guest)